Military Units

Just one thing for now: the word "legionary" was probably a generic word in latin that means simply "soldier", since "legio" was just a word to indicate any group of soldiers. I think something like "italic manipular infantry" would be more accurate.

alocin wrote:Just one thing for now: the word "legionary" was probably a generic word in latin that means simply "soldier", since "legio" was just a word to indicate any group of soldiers. I think something like "italic manipular infantry" would be more accurate.

Thanks! I'll remove mention of 'legionary'. What does 'manipular' mean though?

Ok, was on vacation last 2 weeks, but here's an update for italic military units:

650 BC	1. Italic early iron-age warband
	1. Etruscan early hoplite
550 BC	2. Italic iron-age swordsman
	2. Etruscan hoplite
450 BC	3. Italic improved swordsman
	3. Etruscan light hoplite
375 BC	4. Italic armored swordsman
	4. Italic skirmisher
300 BC	5. Italic early maniple
	5. Italic levis
250 BC	6. Italic improved maniple
	6. Italic improved levis
200 BC	7. Italic Scipian maniple
	7. Italic veles

Roman infantry is exactly the same, except "Italic" is replaced by "Roman" . Note how development accelerates near the end, to reflect the quick development in Italy near the end of the period. If someone can think of something to put in-between somewhere in the earlier levels though, that'd be greatly appreciated.

I've also been thinking about the tech modifiers from military tech a little. In vanilla EU3 the effectiveness of armies increases dramatically during the time period. Not only does one get new troop types, but also the modifiers themselves increase. On top of that, military tactics and morale ALSO increase. This results in the fact that early-game armies would be totally useless against late-game ones; actually, even being ~100 years behind or so renders your troops utterly incapable of inflicting any meaningful damage on the enemy. Regardless of how realistic that is between 1400 and 1800, in our time period, this situation is ahistorical. Sure, tech development made armies much more effective, but it's not like less advanced troops couldn't land any casualties or win battles. So, we have to change the modifiers and tactics. Here's what I think: the fire modifiers should start higher than the shock ones, to reflect that archers were relatively more important in the early period. Then, as shock infantry (hoplites, legionaries) become more important, the shock modifiers should increase. I'd say the fire modifiers should not improve much at all. In the end, shock should be about twice as effective as fire. Morale shouldn't increase much. Tactics should increase somewhat; can anybody think of important moments in the time period tactics-wise?

Tell me your thoughts!

I made a preliminary land tech table:

id	year	tactics	supply	morale	inf fire	cav fire	art fire	inf shock	cav shock	art shock
0	1	0.5	0	0	0.1	0.1	0.05	0.05	0.03	0.02
1	34	0.5	0	0	0.15	0.2	0.1	0.09	0.05	0.03
2	67	0.5	0	0	0.2	0.3	0.2	0.12	0.07	0.04
3	100	0.5	0	0	0.25	0.4	0.25	0.15	0.1	0.05
4	107	0.5	0.05	0.04	0.26	0.42	0.26	0.17	0.13	0.06
5	113	0.5	0.1	0.09	0.26	0.43	0.32	0.19	0.16	0.06
6	120	0.5	0.15	0.13	0.27	0.45	0.37	0.21	0.18	0.07
7	126	0.5	0.2	0.17	0.28	0.46	0.43	0.23	0.21	0.08
8	133	0.5	0.25	0.22	0.29	0.48	0.49	0.25	0.24	0.08
9	139	1.	0.3	0.26	0.29	0.5	0.55	0.27	0.27	0.09
10	146	1.	0.35	0.3	0.3	0.51	0.61	0.29	0.29	0.1
11	153	1.	0.4	0.35	0.31	0.53	0.66	0.31	0.32	0.1
12	159	1.	0.45	0.39	0.32	0.54	0.72	0.33	0.35	0.11
13	166	1.	0.5	0.43	0.32	0.56	0.78	0.35	0.38	0.12
14	172	1.	0.55	0.48	0.33	0.58	0.84	0.37	0.4	0.12
15	179	1.	0.6	0.52	0.34	0.59	0.9	0.38	0.43	0.13
16	185	1.	0.65	0.57	0.34	0.61	0.95	0.4	0.46	0.13
17	192	1.	0.7	0.61	0.35	0.62	1.01	0.42	0.49	0.14
18	199	1.	0.75	0.65	0.36	0.64	1.07	0.44	0.51	0.15
19	205	1.	0.8	0.7	0.37	0.66	1.13	0.46	0.54	0.15
20	212	1.	0.85	0.74	0.37	0.67	1.19	0.48	0.57	0.16
21	218	1.	0.9	0.78	0.38	0.69	1.24	0.5	0.6	0.17
22	225	1.	0.95	0.83	0.39	0.7	1.3	0.52	0.62	0.17
23	231	1.	1.	0.87	0.39	0.72	1.36	0.54	0.65	0.18
24	238	1.	1.05	0.91	0.4	0.73	1.42	0.56	0.68	0.19
25	245	1.	1.1	0.96	0.41	0.75	1.48	0.58	0.71	0.19
26	251	1.5	1.15	1.	0.42	0.77	1.53	0.6	0.73	0.2
27	258	1.5	1.2	1.04	0.42	0.78	1.59	0.62	0.76	0.21
28	264	1.5	1.25	1.09	0.43	0.8	1.65	0.64	0.79	0.21
29	271	1.5	1.3	1.13	0.44	0.81	1.71	0.66	0.82	0.22
30	277	1.5	1.35	1.17	0.45	0.83	1.77	0.68	0.84	0.23
31	284	1.5	1.4	1.22	0.45	0.85	1.82	0.7	0.87	0.23
32	291	1.5	1.45	1.26	0.46	0.86	1.88	0.72	0.9	0.24
33	297	1.5	1.5	1.3	0.47	0.88	1.94	0.74	0.93	0.25
34	304	1.5	1.55	1.35	0.47	0.89	2.	0.76	0.95	0.25
35	310	1.5	1.6	1.39	0.48	0.91	2.06	0.78	0.98	0.26
36	317	1.5	1.65	1.43	0.49	0.93	2.11	0.8	1.01	0.27
37	323	1.5	1.7	1.48	0.5	0.94	2.17	0.82	1.04	0.27
38	330	1.5	1.75	1.52	0.5	0.96	2.23	0.83	1.06	0.28
39	337	1.5	1.8	1.57	0.51	0.97	2.29	0.85	1.09	0.28
40	343	1.5	1.85	1.61	0.52	0.99	2.34	0.87	1.12	0.29
41	350	1.5	1.9	1.65	0.53	1.01	2.4	0.89	1.15	0.3
42	356	1.5	1.95	1.7	0.53	1.02	2.46	0.91	1.17	0.3
43	363	1.5	2.	1.74	0.54	1.04	2.52	0.93	1.2	0.31
44	369	2.	2.05	1.78	0.55	1.05	2.58	0.95	1.23	0.32
45	376	2.	2.1	1.83	0.55	1.07	2.63	0.97	1.26	0.32
46	383	2.	2.15	1.87	0.56	1.09	2.69	0.99	1.28	0.33
47	389	2.	2.2	1.91	0.57	1.1	2.75	1.01	1.31	0.34
48	396	2.	2.25	1.96	0.58	1.12	2.81	1.03	1.34	0.34
49	402	2.	2.3	2.	0.58	1.13	2.87	1.05	1.37	0.35
50	409	2.	2.35	2.04	0.59	1.15	2.92	1.07	1.39	0.36
51	415	2.	2.4	2.09	0.6	1.17	2.98	1.09	1.42	0.36
52	422	2.	2.45	2.13	0.61	1.18	3.04	1.11	1.45	0.37
53	428	2.	2.5	2.17	0.61	1.2	3.1	1.13	1.48	0.38
54	435	2.	2.55	2.22	0.62	1.21	3.16	1.15	1.5	0.38
55	442	2.	2.6	2.26	0.63	1.23	3.21	1.17	1.53	0.39
56	448	2.	2.65	2.3	0.63	1.24	3.27	1.19	1.56	0.4
57	455	2.	2.7	2.35	0.64	1.26	3.33	1.21	1.59	0.4
58	461	2.	2.75	2.39	0.65	1.28	3.39	1.23	1.61	0.41
59	468	2.	2.8	2.43	0.66	1.29	3.45	1.25	1.64	0.42
60	474	2.	2.85	2.48	0.66	1.31	3.5	1.27	1.67	0.42
61	481	2.5	2.9	2.52	0.67	1.32	3.56	1.28	1.7	0.43
62	488	2.5	2.95	2.57	0.68	1.34	3.62	1.3	1.72	0.43
63	494	2.5	3.	2.61	0.68	1.36	3.68	1.32	1.75	0.44
64	501	2.5	3.05	2.65	0.69	1.37	3.74	1.34	1.78	0.45
65	507	2.5	3.1	2.7	0.7	1.39	3.79	1.36	1.81	0.45
66	514	2.5	3.15	2.74	0.71	1.4	3.85	1.38	1.83	0.46
67	520	2.5	3.2	2.78	0.71	1.42	3.91	1.4	1.86	0.47
68	527	2.5	3.25	2.83	0.72	1.44	3.97	1.42	1.89	0.47
69	534	2.5	3.3	2.87	0.73	1.45	4.03	1.44	1.92	0.48
70	540	2.5	3.35	2.91	0.74	1.47	4.08	1.46	1.94	0.49
71	547	2.5	3.4	2.96	0.74	1.48	4.14	1.48	1.97	0.49
72	553	2.5	3.45	3.	0.75	1.5	4.2	1.5	2.	0.5

That was a pretty big table, wasn't it . Basically, all values simply increase linearly between 100AUC and 553 AUC. The idea is that most nations start at tech 3.

I also did some more brainstorming for different land units:

Mesopotamian

650	Assyrian archers
	Assyrian spearmen
	Phrygian peltasts
575	Babylonian archers
	Babylonian spearmen
500	Mesopotamian archers
	Mesopotamian spearmen
425	Improved Mesopotamian archers
	Improved Mesopotamian spearmen
350	Reformed Mesopotamian archers
	Armored Mesopotamian spearmen
275	Advanced Mesopotamian archers
	Advanced Mesopotamian spearmen
200	??
	?? Something Armenian?

Iranian

650	Early Iranian spearmen
	Early Iranian archers
575	Improved Iranian spearmen
	Improved Iranian archers
525	Early Immortals
	Early Sparabara archers
475	Improved Immortals
	Improved Sparabara archers
400	Reformed Immortals
	Reformed Sparabara archers
325	Armored Imortals
	Armored Sparabara archers
250	Parthian spearmen
	Parthian archers
200	Improved Parthian spearmen
	Improved Parthian archers

Indian

650	Vedic archers
	Vedic axemen
575	Improved Vedic archers
	Improved Vedic axemen
500	Late Vedic archers
	Late Vedic axemen
425	Nanda archers
	Nanda spearmen
375	Improved Nanda archers
	Improved Nanda spearmen
325	Maurya archers
	Maurya spearmen
250	Improved Maurya archers
	Improved Maurya spearmen
200	Reformed Maurya archers
	Armored Maurya spearmen

Carthaginian

650	Phoenician archers
	Phoenician spearmen
575	Early Carthaginian archers
	Early Carthaginian spearmen
500	Carthaginian archers
	Carthaginian spearmen
425	Improved Carthaginian archers
	Improved Carthaginian spearmen
350	Reformed Carthaginian archers
	Armored Carthaginian spearmen
275	Advanced Carthaginian archers
	Advanced Carthaginian spearmen
200	Hannibalian archers
	Hannibalian spearmen

Chinese

650	Chinese bronze-age swordsmen
	Chinese archers
575	Chinese improved bronze-age swordsmen
	Chinese improved archers
500	Chinese bronze-age armored swordsmen
	Chinese reformed archers
425	Chinese iron-age swordsmen
	Chinese iron-age archers
350	Chinese improved iron-age swordsmen
	Chinese chrossbowmen
275	Chinese reformed iron-age swordsmen
	Chinese improved crossbowmen
200	Chinese advanced swordsmen
	Chinese reformed crowsbowmen

I know, some of these tables are a bit lame, but I really don't have much of an idea and there doesn't seem to be much information available for some tech groups. Input is welcome!

I was like "what the hell, let's just do the rest of the tech groups and be done with it". Here's the result.

Steppe Iranian

650	Scythian warband
	Basic Scythian archers
575	Improved Scythian warband
	Early Scythian archers
500	Early Scythian spearmen
	Improved Scythian archers
425	Armored Scythian spearmen
	Reformed Scythian archers
350	Advanced Scythian spearmen
	Advanced Scythian archers
275	Indo-Scythian spearmen
	Indo-Scythian archers
200	Improved Indo-Scythian spearmen
	Improved Indo-Scythian archers

East Asian

650	Early Korean bronze-age archers
	Jomon warband
575	Korean bronze-age archers
	Improved Jomon warband
500	Improved Korean bronze-age archers
	Jomon swordsmen
425	Reformed Korean bronze-age archers
	Late Jomon swordsmen
350	Early Korean iron-age archers
	Early Yayoi swordsmen
275	Improved Korean iron-age archers
	Improved Yayoi swordsmen
200	Reformed Korean iron-age archers
	Armored Yayoi swordsmen

Egyptian

650	Saite spearmen
	Saite archers
	Kushite skirmishers
575	Improved Saite spearmen
	Improved Saite archers
525	Late Saite spearmen
	Late Saite archers
	Improved Kushite skirmishers
475	27th Dynasty spearmen
	27th Dynasty archers
400	Nepheritean spearmen
	Nepheritean archers
	Reformed Kushite skirmishers
350	Improved Egyptian spearmen
	Improved Egyptian archers
275	Armored Egyptian spearmen
	Reformed Egyptian archers
200	Advanced Egyptian spearmen
	Advanced Egyptian archers
	Advanced Kushite skirmishers

And now for the real challenge: actually create all of these units